Loading...
CITIZENS ADVISORY 2013/04/18CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON ELECTIONS AND COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT MINUTES Thursday, April 18, 2013 6:30 p.m. Anaheim City Council Chambers 200 S. Anaheim Blvd., Anaheim, CA 92805 COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: John Woodhead, Ex Officio Member Anthony Armas Bill Dalati, Vice Chair Amanda Edinger Sandy Day Larry Larsen Martin Lopez Gloria Ma'ae Keith Olesen Vivian Pham, Chair Vic Real STAFF PRESENT: Greg Garcia, Deputy City Manager Robert Tyson, Deputy City Attorney John Woodhead, Community Development Director Caroline Morey, Recording Secretary Spanish language translation services are available at the meeting upon request. 1. Call meeting to order. The meeting of the Citizens Advisory Committee on Elections and Community Involvement (CAC) was called to order at 6:36 p.m.by Chair Pham. 2. Flag Salute 3 Approve CAC minutes of the April 11, 2013 meetings. Action: Approve minutes. Chair Pham requested a motion to approve the minutes for the April 11, 2013 CAC meeting minutes. Page 1 of 39 Commissioner Olesen indicated that Commissioner Larsen had voted no on one of the items although it had passed. Commissioner Larsen asked to amend the April 11, 2013 meeting minutes to reflect his vote. The April 11, 2013 meeting minutes were approved as amended. Vice Chair Dalati motioned to approve the minutes. Commissioner Armas seconded. Vice Chair Dalati motioned to approve the minutes. Commissioner Armas seconded. Ayes — 10 ( Armas, Dalati, Day, Edinger, Larsen, Lopez, Ma'ae, Olesen, Pham, Real) Noes — 0 4. Public Comments (Individual audience participation is limited to three (3) minutes per speaker) Action: Public comments on any agenda items or subject matter within the jurisdiction of the Citizens Advisory Committee. Commissioner Larsen requested the floor from the chair, he indicated there was an article in the Anaheim Bulletin that he wished to speak about. There was a brief article and Commissioner Larsen said that he was going to read about 3 paragraphs out of it. It is relevant and pertinent to what we are doing. It's for general information purposes. The headline is School Board Mulls Changing Elections to District Voting. Voters in the Anaheim Union High School District soon could choose their school board members by districts rather than at- large. Right now members on the Board of Trustees are voted on by the entire district electorate and do not represent any particular area within the district. Should the Board decide to switch, it would establish trustee areas that are represent by board members that would be voted on within that area only. Anaheim Union is the 4 t ' largest school district in the county with more than 32,000 students. It covers more than 46 square miles and includes portions on Anaheim, Cypress, Buena Park, La Palma and Stanton. Of the 5 board members, three live in Anaheim while the other two live in La Palma and Cypress. Public Comments: Lucille Kring, Anaheim City Council Woman, said that she did not have any plans to speak tonight. It's an interesting article, Mr. Larsen. She thanked Mr. Larsen for sharing that. Council Member Kring stated that she does not support districting and she provided some reasons why. She thinks in a few years the Hispanic community could have all five members on the City Council. You have to give it time to let the process work. She said she does not think that districting is going to provide people with what many people have said they want. Council Woman Kring provided examples of why districting could be problematic in the City of Anaheim. She said for example, if Keith, Amanda and she were council members and each came from separate districts and Keith wants a fire station, Amanda wants a police station in her district and Council Woman Kring would like a park, the first year they are all friends and they vote for Keith and he gets his fire station. The next year Amanda, Keith and she have a falling out and neither one of us get the support from each other. So they don't get Amanda's police station, nor does Council Woman Kring get the park. You have to remember that when there are 5 people, whether it's 5 or 7 people, on a City Council, you are under the auspices of the Brown Act which means if you have 5 people, you can talk to one other council person. You cannot caucus. People have said to Council Woman Kring that they will talk to their other colleagues, and get them to see their point of view in order to get the fire station or the police station. You won't have that opportunity because you will be violating the Page 2 of 39 Brown Act.. If you have seven council members, you cannot talk to more than two people. These are things that you really need to consider. By district voting in a city is not going to be the be -all end -all panacea that you are looking for. You need to elect people that you think will appropriately support you. Also, if you are in a district, and you don't like the person in your district you are banned from voting for someone from another district. She said she'd provide another example: in Newport Beach, they go by residency. There were candidates in another district and she thought each one of them would be fabulous council members, but she could only elect one. The people in the district next to them, thought that both of the candidates would be a disaster, so what do you do? You do not get the council person that is going to truly represent you. She thanked each and every one of the committee members as she realized the commitment to serve has taken a great deal of time and energy away from your families and friend and other places you could be. Thank you for your time. God bless. Mariana Rivera, Anaheim resident in support of district voting. She said that she understands district voting will not be something that will solve everything. Ms. Rivera stated that she feels districting will aid in solving most problems that her community is having. Some people believe that Anaheim is not ready for districting because Anaheim is being compared to other cities. She believes to truly know this; you would need to live in those different cities. Also, she said that you would need to live in our community to really know what we are going through. The last appearance she has had here, she was told that she has been asked to participate more so she is doing that and she is here, participating. She would like to invite each one of you (the committee members) and the community to attend a community meeting that they are having. The meeting will share ways to participate and what their community is living through. She would like to deliver them so that you can attend their meetings. She provided a handout to be given to the committee. It is a cordial invitation extended to all so that you may see what we are living through and what we are participating in. You as a committee have asked me and our neighborhood to get more involved, so here I am. I am participating and we are now doing this to get more involved. Mariana said she would appreciate your attendance at their meeting. She said that she hoped the committee would take time to consider this to accept our invitation. She thanked everyone and said God bless. Clare Turner, Policy Analyst at OCCORD, has been researching the distribution of community resources such as parks, libraries, community centers, fire stations in Anaheim for quite a while. Today she presented a handout about the above titled "Unequal Voice means Unequal Resources." She mentioned that you heard a lot about this from speakers who both support and oppose districts. She reviewed the handout stating that about 300,000 residents live in the flat lands and approximately 60,000 live in the hills. Seven council members have resided in the flat lands while eight council members have lived in the hills. She used data that they got from Anaheim's Finance Department used on capital improvements spending by the city used since the 2004 -2005 fiscal year. They saw a lot of investment in both areas of the city over the past nine years, however there was more spent in Anaheim Hills. $170 per resident in the hills compared to $156 in flatlands. Finally, if you look at the total number of resources available to residents in different parts of the city, some of these parks and community centers have been around for a very long time; others have been built in recent memory. Anaheim Hills' residents have 3.5 times as much park space as flatlands Anaheim residents, and a little less than twice as many community centers.. On a more specific public level, she stated that Anaheim South District Neighborhood Council received less public investment in total and per capita than any other neighborhood council district. She also stated that West Anaheim has over 100,000 residents and 13 square miles of land and only one library. Since 2004, the most public spending per resident went to the census tracts with the higher incomes. The top 115 of census tracts with incomes in the 80 -100 percentiles, with $75,000 with median household income, received more public investment than any of the other area. There may be reasons in that Anaheim is Page 3 of 39 governed as a whole and sometimes, issues take precedence over others. She summarized by saying that she found a trend over time troubling that less was spent on underrepresented areas. Marisol Ramirez has lived in Anaheim since she was a little girl, near Crescent and Brookhurst, West Anaheim. She spoke in support of districting as she believes it will make the council more accountable. She is a part time worker and works with children in the 5 th grade class. These students remind her of the challenges that she grew up with. She grew up in areas like many of the areas in Anaheim where residents have expressed concern about densely overpopulated neighborhoods, nothing but apartments, parking is an issue, absentee landlords and the area being generally run down. It angers her to see that there are different generations going through the same issues. There should be better access for the children. Aside from libraries, they should have community centers that are spread throughout. They should have the same resources as Anaheim Hills. She believes that district elections will give them that since they will be able to hold their representatives accountable. Theresa Hines, 15 year resident who has attended a few of the Citizens Advisory Committee meetings and she would like to make a few observations. Although it appears that districting may be the way to go, with the recommendation. She would like to suggest a recommendation that is comprised of both city council and at -large members. The reason she recommends this is that there may be some leveraging where city council can go and volley for the needs of their respective districts but you do need to have members on a governing body that will have a city -wide perspective. She is hoping that balance could make the City of Anaheim the best in both ways. She also wanted to express with regard to Anaheim Police Department. She understands that other individuals have had unfortunate experiences with them, but she would like to say that for the time that she was in need of police services, they were very respectful, helpful and professional to me. She would like others to respect the fact that there are other sides of the story. Regarding the comments related to Disneyland bed tax and the negativity from one of the speakers, whether it was factual or not, she cannot comment on. She said that she shudder to think if the city's biggest tax revenue generator were to leave the city. She is concerned to think what would happen to all the businesses that would be affected by that. She wanted to say that there was a president when she was growing up who said "Ask not what you country can do for your but what can you do for your country." Standing here as a resident, as a tax payer, we can all do something. No matter where we are on the economic spectrum of life, no matter what our race, creed, color, and religion may be, we can all do something. You have code enforcement that you can call when you have unsightly, unkempt areas. You have anonymous reporting for gang bangers who should not be terrorizing your neighborhood. She wants all of us to know that we need to take control of our destinies and not live in fear of defeat of anything. Lastly, she wanted to comment on the question she has heard the last two meetings that she has been here, "how does the committee want to be remembered ?" First, she commended each of the committee for the time and sacrifice that each one of you have made and put your personal lives aside to tend to this project. She wants to say that your decisions were substantiated upon facts, logic, due diligence, not emotion. That they (your recommendations) were fair, equitable, and reasonable. That you will apply wisdom to the information that you acquired over the course of this project to support your decisions and that your recommendations help to craft an electoral model for future generations that kept Anaheim vibrant, financially sound, and safe for our diverse community acknowledging and respecting all residents of Anaheim. Jeff (no last name given) is a current resident who lives near the Lincoln and Brookhurst area and works in the area since 2009 as a grill cook. The reason why they need district elections is due to the fact, as workers, are not being heard. Their voices are being drowned out by the voice of the few, those with the big dollars. He is currently he is going to be thrown out of his job as of July if something doesn't change. Page 4 of 39 Getting involved to work for change, he has attended city council meetings, spoken with Mayor Tait, Councilmember Brandman, and a few other council members. They still have no solution. He does vote and is a citizen. He brings his concerns to others, now, co- workers, family, friends, neighbors. He feels that if they had an equal voice, he could talk to council members that represent the Honda Center as well as those that represent the areas that he has lived in. He would like to bring his concerns to them, and be heard and have change take place at that time. Thank you. Janette Lister. She is a long time resident who grew up near Brookhurst and Ball. She presently lives near State College and Lincoln. She lives near Honda Center and works for Honda Center. In favor of districts, and believes 8 districts will help represent the densely populated city and varying economic neighborhoods. She recommends that you mandate candidate and elected official live in his or her district, providing for them to be more hands on in their district with the issues and conflicts that are needed in that particular district. This would improve accountability in each area. Anaheim is changing in regard to ethnicity and income. In the 1970's when she was growing up the population was 60,000 and now it's 340,000. With the immigration reform, those numbers will climb. She wants to make it perfectly clear that this is not a Latino thing, it's not a black thing, and it's not Filipino, Scottish, and German. This is an American thing. It is a basic right. There are tax payers in this city who have issues that are not being addressed in a timely fashion simply because we live in the wrong neighborhood. The proposed 8 districts would impact our city in such a positive way. Those elected officials living there in that neighborhood could head off trouble before it happens, like our recent unfortunate events. As it stands the current elected officials live in the hills and the Colony that is 1% of Anaheim. Our system of elections is broken. It does not reflect us. She has been coming to City Council meetings and to the CAC meetings, with their troubles at Honda and they are running out of time. Jose, volunteer with OCCORD. He is in solidarity with Janette Lister and all the other works at Honda Center that they will not be kicked out of their jobs and be replaced with minimum wage workers. They need better jobs here in Anaheim. He grew up in Anaheim, graduated of Savanna High School. He didn't really see any difference in neighborhoods. You assume everybody lives the same as you until you get older and then you play against Brea High School Basketball. You realize that they have their nice uniforms and their nice school and we're just struggling to get by. Like many people who marvel at the big buildings, and palm trees, and Disneyland, you don't really know that there are other ways to live until you take a trip elsewhere. He worked at Disneyland, as well, he quickly realized that he couldn't make a living there to provide for himself and his wife working there. His attitude and troubles that they had caused them to go different ways. It's amazing he said I went door to door to talk to voters, trying to help get voters out. Its impressive how many people think that Anaheim Hills and Anaheim are two different cities. It's actually quite sad because that is the reality that there are two different cities in one. And that's not okay. So the solution is the districts, the district elections. They need 8 districts. Leonard Latinen, long time West Anaheim resident came with two points he'd like to make tonight. He said he was here 25 years ago to make a statement to a committee in Anaheim that was considering the master plan for the city. He recommends expanding the city council to a seven member group including the mayor. He recommends a compromise: 3 district elections with districts in the east, central, west and 3 council members elected at large. Anaheim is a huge city and a 5 member council is too small. He believes the city needs district elections. There are two needs for this city: larger council, some sort of district election system. He remembers North OC Community College District who governs the Cypress College and Fullerton College. Last year they converted to 7 trustee areas. There are 7 elected trustees when last year they switched from 4 trustees to the current 7. This included a change to district elections. Page 5 of 39 They converted to the district system and each trustee was elected by each area. It is now more in -line with the democratic ideals of an election system. He asked the committee to consider these suggestions. Duane Roberts lives at 2276 Colchester Dr. He has been a resident of West Anaheim more than 40 years. He appreciates the adoption of the recommendation to adjust future council start time to a later hour of 6:30p.m. He is satisfied with that compromise. Nine out of 9/10 super majority agree that 5p.m. is no longer adequate. His second request may be a bit more contentious in that request that they abolish the antiquated system of At -Large voting and move to 8 districts. From 1913 -2013, many changes took place including conditions changing and social institutions changing. He believes the at -large system needs to go and supports districting. Yesenia- resident of Anna Dr. who has lived in Anaheim for more than 25 years. She thinks because of all the problems in their neighborhood they need to have someone who represents their neighborhood. She wants to ask for the committee's support in suggesting 8 districts. They need someone who lives in Anna Drive neighborhood not someone from Anaheim Hills. Maria Ruiz said that maybe you remember me and tonight I am going to try to speak your language. Before someone translate for me. Now, she said I am going to speak in your language. Maria Ruiz has worked for Disneyland for 6 years. She has three teenagers in the university. She is one of the Latino people who come to this country to have a better life. What comes to mind is the phrase from the country's oath "justice for all." When you make district elections in this city that is going to be justice for all. Thank you. Narcisco Guevara has worked at Disneyland and has lived in Anaheim for 25 years. He has his children who were raised here in Anaheim. He believes that he has always been a responsible citizen, never had any problems. He is here to support the expansion of these districts. He said the expansion into districting would personally for the last period in time he noticed the city has advanced slowly. He said that we are in a new era, the communication era. He knows that the City of Anaheim is up to this and much more than this. His appearance here tonight is just to say to you that our children deserve better schools, better safe communities, and communities in better condition as well. He knows if they all work together that we will be able to obtain this goal. Pedro Ramadan, 32 year he has worked in Anaheim, has been running a business in Anaheim for approximately 8 years. He pays taxes just as many of you do. Where his business is located is just off Euclid, he does not feel his business is being well represented the way it should be represented. He is pro - districting and with 8 districts, he would have better access to lodge any complaints or business to that effect, to have a more successful business. Rudy Gaona, resident of Anaheim since 2004. Born and raised in East LA. He decided to move to Anaheim because it is a beautiful city with beautiful people. They support their military which he said he is very proud to say he is a 21 year veteran of the service of the Army which he retired recently. He is pro- districting. It is time for equal representation here in the city of Anaheim. It doesn't matter what color or race you are, but its equal opportunity for everyone.. He doesn't have lots of money, but maybe one day he would like to run for city council. He said with no disrespect to Ms. Lucille Kring, Council Member, she talked about a few council members want a fire house or library; she said what if they have a fall out. Well, they are thinking with their emotions. A true council member is a very professional individual that the residents of Anaheim voted on. Page 6 of 39 Luz Rosales from Ponderosa Neighborhood said in her community and other low income communities, families are forced to live crowded in apartments. This causes many serious social problems and lower quality of life for families. One big problem they face is lack of parking. It caught her attention how the City of Anaheim is developing this city inside the city, inside the Platinum Triangle, where they can see the very nice condominiums, and there are spaces that are empty meanwhile people are overcrowded elsewhere. They have been participating in South District Neighborhood Council Meetings as well as organizing the community to try to solve their own problems. They have discussed the concern of districting. They have talked to code enforcement and the police department but they have had have no answers or solutions at all. This is why she feels that they need 8 electoral districts and representatives that understand their real needs and have their interests in mind. Their job is to listen to them; not to tell them how they feel. Arturo Ferreras Quintero said he has been a volunteer in the community and has served as the Chair of the South District Neighborhood Council serving the city of Anaheim. The south is the poorest in Anaheim. He wanted to address the committee on two points tonight that he has observed: 1. Fear of change 2. As well as those who want genuine change in the community. He believes it is high time for us to strengthen the social fabric of the city. He believes that districting will help. Each part of the city is represented by a different territory or sector, if you don't want to use the word districts that have particular needs. There need to be representatives so that all these territories' needs can be addressed. Some don't want change and feel district elections being imposed on us. There is an urgent need to be represented and to be heard. There is a vastly different mix of people that make up the beautiful fabric of Anaheim. There is no better democratic system than districts. He stated he supports having 8 districts in Anaheim to represent all the needs of the city. German Santos, resident who lives just across the street from City Hall. Here's what he contributes to the community. He said he is Hispanic and came from NYC originally. He has lived somewhat like a nomad in Rancho Santa Margarita, Anaheim Hills, Irvine, Mission Viejo and Garden Grove. As a Hispanic fellow, he's never had to deal with issues that fellow Hispanics here like what has happened on Anna Drive in Anaheim. The Hispanic Gang member problem, in those communities, it's like none of that exists. He has always thought these are issues for other people until a few years ago he and his parents purchased a home here. What he has discovered is that the law enforcement community seems to have contempt for Hispanic men in the community. They thought they could treat a Hispanic man working on engineering projects for an American Company that travels to Bogota, Colombia working on project. They thought they could treat him like a gang member. He said despite the fact that he is an engineer. When the riots occurred or protest or whatever you want to call them, last summer, he didn't know many of those people because he didn't live in their neighborhoods but it was literally like he had known them for 30 years. The one thing that we had in common, besides the fact that we're Hispanics, is that they feel like the police are their enemy. That is his contribution. He hears many people talk about how they can get help. He feels there is no help. He has asked for the help and so far there's no help for his concerns. This community feels that by resorting to a different sort of electoral system that they will be able to pick people from their area and somehow that is going to make things better. Marta Rivera, from the Ponderosa Community, she is here in support of district voting. She said that this issue is in your hands. If you have said that you will be spending more money to have more council members assigned, how is it that they are able to vote for $158 million tax for the construction of a hotel that is really no benefit for the community. You can make these changes today and be part of Anaheim's history. Thank you. Page 7 of 39 Maurice Turner, resident who just lives several blocks away. He's lived in Anaheim for several years now and said he cares very much about his community. He has been doing his part to make it better. He really appreciates the committee doing their part and everyone here in the audience doing their part to try and make Anaheim a better place to live. How do we know if we have done enough to satisfy the feeling of representation in the community. What is that metric that this group and the council and the community is going to use to know that we've put forth enough effort and we have made enough changes, or enough steps in the right direction, and to make sure there is a feeling of representation from the community. In just taking a look back at our census data, looking at which groups are considered to be minorities. If you look at the 2010 census, blacks are the minority in the range from about 2.5 to 3 %, Asian 15 -16 %. If you take those numbers and look at the way our council has been constructed that you would expect to have a black person on council approximately every 16 years or so if we're going along the lines of ethnic representation. You'd expect to have an Asian person elected to council every 3 -4 years. So if we don't meet those metrics or those quotas that some people might want to put out there for us are we still going to leave ourselves open to the community or organizations like the ACLU and suing because we found another group that is unrepresented. How many of these other groups are there going to be. We need to keep putting our efforts in from a structural background, which to me sounds like quotas. It's like saying unless you come from my exact same background, and specifically, looks exactly like me; you're not going to be able to represent me. His deepest concern is that we're going to go through a process of making these changes and then as a body, as a council, as a people, we're not going to give it enough time to work. What if after that first election, the council composition doesn't change significantly or by the second election. How much time are we going to give it before we say it's just not working or the ACLU comes back and says you made it worse. You've made it so that now you have all this in- fighting between these district elected officials and no one is getting anything done. That is his hope here that you continue getting things done and that folks who are here keep showing up to other meetings and to council meetings. He said that he appreciates everyone expressing their passion and effort in working toward making Anaheim a better community. Raida Hamida works and lives in Anaheim. She came to Anaheim in 1993 when she lives in Anaheim Hills. She currently resides in the Platinum Triangle. She understands what it is like to live in Anaheim as a privileged person and it is hard to watch the underserved in the community. It doesn't give me the right to disconnect from these underserved communities. It is hard to see the lack of equality in the distribution of funding, because of the situation with the lack of redistricting. People like her have to step out and speak up to help those underserved communities by saying it's not right that just because it doesn't affect me, any day she could lose her job, and it could affect her and she would have to leave Platinum Triangle. She said then she may have to live in the Mira Loma area or in the Ponderosa area and the sad thing is that our communities now are isolated. We should reunite with the people that are also discriminated against. One of the things she would like to propose, in that it's beautiful to see everyone come out and to see the passion and diversity regarding redistricting, but to step up because everyone here has a voice. Everybody here has a place. She could speak to Mayor Tom Tait or Lucille Kring. She could speak to Terry Lowe in Community Services. Everyone here has that equal opportunity to have a voice. One of the other things she has seen unfortunately because she was part of a commission to address the youth in the City of Anaheim. Sadly, the City of Anaheim is one of the richest places in the country, yet Anaheim also has one of the poorest neighborhoods in the country. Mira Loma is one of the communities who have the highest need for services yet there is no resource center. Next year there is going to be a resource center built, but that is because of people speaking up and coming to Community Service and City Council Meetings and speaking their voice. Even though as a Muslim and an Arab woman in our community, we may feel discriminated against, but it's not until we also reach out to those who are underserved that we Page 8 of 39 can have a voice and work together. Because of the lack of safety in that community of Mira Loma, we are connecting neighborhoods by promoting safety. Unfortunately because of what has happened in Boston, is that one of the great things is that we unite in tragedy. It is unfortunately a discovery we have in these times but we should be pro- active rather than reactive. Saturday uniting Mira Loma form 11 am to Ipm the Muslim and Arab community are uniting with the Latino community and promoting safety in that area where there are no resources. If anyone would like to meet me afterward I can provide you with more information. The meeting will be this Saturday from 11 -1 at the Anaheim PD, Fire Department, CERT Team; Red Cross will all be there to address the children and the members of that community to support them in times of need. Thank you. Dr. Patricia Adelekan, resident of Anaheim and she has looked around and she still sees human beings. As human beings, she believes that we have a commission and command to care for one another and she is using the work love of community to take care of one another. In the name of Dr. Martin Luther King, he called it a beloved community. We take care of one another as human beings. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Let us do our homework, due diligence, use wisdom, use justice, good sense, your brain and your heart, that we didn't pay for, but they are most valuable to us, and make the decision that is going to help everyone. You have heard many people here tonight speaking and I am looking at the faces. Love the faces of everyone before us. She knows you are going to do the right thing. Thank you. Eric Altman, OCCORD, addressed the committee that if you get through tonight you get one more meeting. Another credit to all of you for the service you have put in. Some of you came in at the beginning, some of you a little bit later, but that is a credit to all of you. He hopes that you have been spending hours in front of your computer screen watching the footage as there is a log of good info has been presented. As one previous speaker mentioned change can be uncomfortable. Change is here regardless of what you do tonight. What we have heard a lot of folks saying is that many feel there is a need for a change to have districts. That seems to be the tough question that you have to talk about tonight. We saw at the last meeting, that you had a very wise facilitator, who led you through some of the easier questions and you had a lot of good agreement about a lot of things. That was good. Mr. Altman said that he thought he would make a recommendation on starting point for tonight with a question on the number of seats, not one single person said keep seats the same size. No one has spoken about keeping the size the same, none of your experts said keep the size. Many of your experts 2 recommended it. If nothing else, you may recommend an increase in the council size. Professor Hill said lower levels of representation and you may want to consider increasing the size. You have the facts and info in front of you so you may want to consider that size of the council. You all may not agree on districting but size you should be able to agree upon. He thanked the committee for their service and said that he trusted as another speaker said that you will do the right thing in serving the people of Anaheim. Christina Guerrero, born in Santa Ana and raised in Anaheim has lived here for 36 years. She is a substitute teach in Anaheim Union High School District (AUHSD). Being raised in Anaheim and working as a teacher, she feels that she is part of the community and that she has gotten to know the community well. Teaching is her passion. Two years ago she was one of the main artists who volunteered to do the mural projects at the GardenWalk. She would love to see more of those types of projects in Anaheim, cleaning up the image that we have here. She is a true product of the city and she loves the city. When she subs, one of the main problems she sees is dealing with discipline problems in students who come from certain areas. That is why she would like to see more positive youth programs and feels strongly that involving youth to get them out of the streets and out of trouble she has seen them get into. Page 9 of 39 She volunteers a lot within her neighborhood. She is a member of OCCORD. She is an artist and she does a lot in our city and the community. She can't stress how important this is to her personally to have better representation. It's just logic to her and she strongly feels in her heart that it's needed. It's just common sense. They need that representation here. Thank you. Chair Pham thanked everyone for their comments. Public comments closed at 7:35 p.m. 5. Receive and File Community Outreach Efforts Action: Receive and file community outreach report, upon presentation of outreach efforts. Outreach information made available during the meeting and online at www.anabeim.net /CACelections Chair Pham requested a motion to receive and file the report on outreach efforts. Deputy City Manager Garcia stated that they do not have a staff report today but they did have a memo in their packet and that staff would be able to answer any questions. Commissioner Lopez motioned to receive and file. Commissioner Ma'ae seconded. Ayes — 10 (Armas, Dalati, Day, Edinger, Larsen, Lopez, Ma'ae, Olesen, Pham, Real) Noes — 0 The motion passed. 6. Overview, presentation, discussion and possible decisions on the Committee's recommendations Action: Facilitated by Steven Lynn. Mr. Lynn provided an overview of the items presented at the April 11 CAC meeting, as reflected in your minutes, as well as the decisions that were made. While the audience cannot see it, there is a list of the items that were agreed upon at the April 11th meeting. Mr. Lynn said that he would like to review those items, be prepared to discuss those items, and be prepared to approve that draft in order to present it to the mayor and council. Items voted on tonight April 18, 2013 a. Council Seat size Tonight the committee will focus on Item one regarding electoral system in Anaheim. As a speaker recommended they may want to start with the number of council seats. The information was presented again on a series of notes on the board which reviewed the 5 items that the committee has been tasked with in the City Council's resolution. Mr. Lynn also referred to the Rules listed below and reminded everyone that they would be abiding by those as they went through the process tonight. Page 10 of 39 Secondly he wanted to ensure everyone tonight had an opportunity to weigh in on the outcome, that everyone spoke and participated to feel as though they are a part of the recommendations being made. Mr. Lynn opened by discussing the number recommendation as being more than 5 with the recommendation suggest that you have an odd number of council member seats so that you do not have deadlock, so that the number of council members plus the mayor would equal, hopefully, an odd number, whether that be Tor 9. Mr. Lynn said he would like to see where people are in regard to the 7 or 9 city council member concept. Chair Pham said she would start by saying 8. Mr. Lynn clarified you would like to see 8 plus the mayor so that would equal 9. Ms. Pham confirmed that. Commissioner Armas 7 based on 6 plus the mayor. Commissioner Lopez 8 plus the mayor. Commissioner Edinger 6 plus the mayor. Vice Chair Dalati 8 plus the mayor Commissioner Ma'ae 6 plus the mayor Commissioner Larsen 8 plus the mayor Commissioner Real said he goes with a bunch. Mr. Lynn said that would be a split.Commissioner Real stated that he felt like this question was premature. He said he believed that they should be looking at some of the other questions first but said we don't know what the questions are. Mr. Lynn replied that the questions for discussion are contained within your charge, per the resolution. Mr. Lynn reviewed the questions. Mr. Lynn said we're going to talk a little bit about the number of council seats. He said we're going to discuss how the mayor might be elected. He said we're going to talk about the ways in which the council might be elected. Those are the three questions. That is all; those are the three questions. Commissioner Real stated I think you are being funny about it but I don't think that it's funny. Mr. Lynn indicated that was not his intention. Mr. Real continued that he is very serious about the process and about the way we are going through it. Mr. Real said that he felt last week that Mr. Lynn was putting words in their mouths on those questions. Mr. Real said that he feels coming to this question today is not the appropriate time. So Commissioner Real said that he wish to abstain from voting. Mr. Lynn asked Commissioner Real, so you don't wish to participate. Commissioner Real said he did not wish to participate on this question; on the issue of the size of City Council. Mr. Lynn said that if anyone else feels he put words in your mouth he needs to know that. He said these are your words; not mine. This is your record; not mine. These are recommendations made from people who have come to the dais over the 6 months that you have been working. The recommendations that you made last week came from your record. Mr. Lynn asked for other comments. Page 11 of 39 Commissioner Day said she believes it's reasonable to expand the council and she agrees with her colleagues. Day supported 7 total, 6 council members plus the mayor. Mr. Lynn said let me clarify what I am hearing. There seems to be a fairly strong consensus that the committee believes the number on the council should be expanded with there being a difference in the total number of seats being recommended. Mr. Lynn asked how many of you are for the total of 9 (8 council members plus 1 mayor) The following raised their hands: Commissioners Lopez, Dalati, Larsen, Pham Mr. Lynn asked how many of you are for the total of 7 (6 council members plus 1 mayor) The following raised their hands: Commissioners Olesen, Edinger, Armas, Day, Ma'ae Mr. Lynn asked if he may suggest that the committee recommend to council that there be an increase in size of the council to either 6 plus the mayor or 8 council members plus the mayor, retaining an odd total number. Vice Chair Dalati agreed. Mr. Lynn asked if that would be a reasonable recommendation. Commissioner Ma'ae and Edinger agreed as did many of the other committee members. Chair Pham thought it was reasonable. Commissioner Day disagreed. Mr. Lynn said so let's use that as the recommendation to council. He said that we can revisit it tonight and discuss it further. He said if something strikes you as needing to go back and rethink this for some reason, the committee can do that. Vice Chair Dalati asked that they hear the disagreement from Commissioner Day. Commissioner Day would like to discuss this. One of the items she learned from viewing the speakers, she said the larger the council the less efficient it becomes. Commissioner Day's concern being growing too fast might not be wise and that it might be wiser to grow incrementally. She happened to have the statistics provided to the committee by Professor Sarah Hill regarding cities that were comparable to us. They saw a variety of numbers from 5 -11. It seems to her if they are to expand to consider taking it slowly. As the population continues to grow, there would be the possibility to expand maybe ten or twenty years from now this could be revisited again if it's necessary. Commissioner Day restated the lesson that was given to us from Dr. Hill was that the larger the council the less efficient it is, so Ms. Day said she thinks it would be wise for them to grow cautiously as a council. Chair Pham said that during one of Dr. Hill's presentations she said that there is only a risk if the council expands enormously. Chair Pham does not think that from 5 to 9 is an enormous number. Dr. Hill said she thought that if the council grew to 7 or 9 she did not think this would be an issue. Chair Pham said that the city is growing everyday with the new immigration reform. She said she didn't know if you saw the press release from the City of Anaheim but they agreed with the Immigration Reform Act. We're just going to keep doubling and growing in size and population. Ms. Pham said she thinks that if they just decide to expand the council 10 -20 years from now we're going to be behind. We're not being pro- active; we're being reactive to the community and Chair Pham said she would like to be pro- active. Page 12 of 39 Commissioner Ma'ae stated she believes that going from 5 to 9; the council size would actually double. It's not a question of it being enormous. That is doubling the council. Why would we be in such a hurry. Why would we not be cautious and take it in steps so that we can really examine what the actual needs are and not just do a knee-jerk reaction. We have heard the professionals speak and they have provided good information. Ms. Ma'ae said that she believes adding two members would be substantial and that they have the room for growth right now. It is something that could be done right away. Why not take the time to re- examine and see if our growth is still going to be on the same pattern that it has been or with the change in the economy if there has been an impact on the citizenry of the city. What will the outcome be and take some time to study that. Commissioner Lopez said if he may, this is from public comments and from experts in the field, Dr. Steve Chessin, did say that Anaheim has had 5 representatives since 1857. What he can see from experts is that Anaheim is long overdue to increase the size of the city council. So just increasing it by two, we will continue to have an issue because the rate of growth of the city. With 340,000 residents, almost 350,000 residents, the city council will still have to many residents to represent. Here we come again in a few years when we're already overdue, and if we take those small steps, in a couple years we're going to find ourselves violating the California Voting Rights Act Again. Commissioner Ma'ae interjected that we don't know that there is a violation. Commissioner Lopez said that it's not his opinion but it's what he got from experts. He based his number on looking at other cities in California. Anaheim is a big city. Two more members is not enough. The ratio is still too many residents to a council member. Areas will feel not represent and we'll be back to square one. Chair Pham quoted Dr. Sarah by saying that she stated 8 -10 districts in Anaheim would not cause an efficiency problem. Ten districts is a lot. She meant to say ten council members but she believes that 8 is a good number. Chair Pham said it may seem like it's doubling. Commissioner Ma'ae said it is. Chair Pham said that the city of Anaheim had 4 council members represent a city that was less than 100,000 and now we are at 350,000 and growing. More representation will help us. She does not think 8 city council members is going to be too much. Vice Chair Dalati said he feels that it would be fair to state both opinions since 4 of us feel one way and 5 agree with the other. Commissioner Larsen said that this meeting has gone on the road and reached every community and touched the heart strings of the citizens, now it's come down to this, politics. The best argument we heard against 8 districts would be Council Member Lucille Kring. What she said that more council people you have the harder it will be to cut deals. That is what she means. How will the example she gave with 3 of the council trying to make progress, if there are too many other council members cluttering it up. Commissioner Ma'ae asked if that is the same as building a consensus. Page 13 of 39 Commissioner Larsen said it depends on what that word means to you. He believed she was referring to cutting a deal. Commissioner Larsen said maybe it's a better deal if you have 8 people than 4 people. Mr. Larsen said we need more districts. Commissioner Real clarified by saying that we are not talking about districts; what we are talking about is number of council seats, number of members. What Mr. Larsen just said to us was talking about districts. He said may have misquoted Council Member Kring that the city council job is to divvy up what is available. It's a matter of economics, not politics. The decision is who is going to get the bigger piece of the pie today and not tomorrow. Mr. Lynn indicated that we are talking about council size, number of seats, not how we get that council size. Commissioner Armas said we're throwing a lot of numbers around. He said the districts are relative to the council because the council dictates the districts. When he looked at New York they basically have 144,000 people per council member. We keep hearing this 8 number. It seems to be a consensus around the organized group we're hearing from. When we're talking about 8; we're talking about 45,000 people per council member representation. Then they want to break that into districts which seem pretty small. He gave Oakland as an example and they have 9 with about 50,000 more people than Anaheim. So there is room for growth and we're at 7. Do we have over - representation. Chair Pham said we're not yet at 7. Commissioner Armas said that we're considering 7 or 9 and he thinks that 9 may be too many. He restated that New York has 144,000 per council member. Chair Pham said that New York is a different beast. Mr. Lynn wants you all to discuss but I am hearing from you that it may be time to recommend increasing the number of members of council. That number for openers is either 6 or 8 and you are not ready to make a firm recommendation for either. Commissioner Day asked if she might add she is hoping that Commissioner Real may consider participating now. If we were to consider expanding to 7, last November we could have had 4 council seats available. The number 3 and 4 seat likely would have been Mr. John Leos and Ms. Rivera. It is interesting to see that when the council is expanded the potential for diversity increases and that would have been with just two additional seats. To address Mr. Larsen, in defense of Council member Kring was what was learned studying districts in the San Jose area was that land use issues become a major problem when council members get beholden regarding too much power concerning land use. Since that meeting she did receive an email from Dr. Christensen, the university professor regarding land use that many mayors dominate decisions regarding land use. Their council members defer to them so that they will get support with their preference in their own districts. She believes that is what Lucille Kring was referring to.. Mr. Lynn said let's be very clear we are talking about the size of the council and not how they are elected. We are talking about the number of people who are going to sit on the dais. The question is 5 the current number sufficient to represent the city of Anaheim. Page 14 of 39 Everyone who has spoken believes it may be time to increase the number. There is no consensus on which number. There are two schools of thought, at least, one is 6 plus a mayor and one is 8 plus a mayor. If you're not ready to switch your vote, can we get a consensus on one of those? You may want to consider recommending to council that there be an increase in the number of council seats and either moving it to 6 or 8 plus the mayor. That would reflect everything I have heard so far. Commissioner Edinger said she thinks the fear is that whatever decisions we make in the size of council indirectly affect whether we favor districts. So if we say 8 council seats, if the decision is if we favor districts, then the logical decision would be 8 districts. Do you see what I'm saying? Mr. Lynn said I see exactly what you are saying but one does not necessarily lead to the other. You have 5 council members now and they are not districted. You can have 8 elected at large. Once does not mean the other is a foregone conclusion and you should not have that in your mind that just doing one suggests the other. Commissioner Anrnas asked don't we currently only have 7 seats (meaning physical seats available in the chambers). Commissioner Larsen would like to respond to Ms. Day. You may have the ability to read minds. What he believes Ms. Kring said was that there is a good old boys network and the more you add to it the more difficult it will be to sit in a back room and make a deal. Commissioner Ma'ae asked that is what you believe was literally said? Commissioner Real said that is not what she said which raised discussion among all committee members. Mr. Lynn said it is not particularly productive to parse the council member's words. Chair Pham asked if you could repeat rule 44. Own your own words. The one that says if someone is not here. Mr. Lynn said Own your own words. Chair Pham agreed yes that was the one that she wished to be reiterated. He doesn't mean to denigrate anyone's research but you can find any number of sources either for or against both sides of the argument. The point is they do it every way, everywhere. This is here. This is now. The question is, what are you ten people going to decide, that you can recommend to your city council that they can consider. That is the only question before you. Commissioner Lopez asked to talk to fellow committee members particularly the ones favoring the number six. We all came here with an open mind and this is a public meeting, where we want the residents of Anaheim to come out and speak. The City of Anaheim did a great job bringing forward a number of experts. Mr. Lopez said that he never heard any of the experts. We kept hearing the number 8, so if we are to sit here, and ignore what they are all demanding or asking for, then we could have this meeting behind closed doors and ignore the reality. The public is asking for 8 members based on statistics and numbers that are real, what the city of Anaheim residents need and deserve. Page 15 of 39 Commissioner Ma'ae said Mr. Lopez the organization OCCORD has done an excellent job of bringing forward the number 8. They have been exemplary in coordinating among the people in this audience in those neighborhoods, who are disenfranchised. Commissioner Lopez said but OCCORD is not running the city, Ms. Ma'ae Commissioner Ma'ae said that's right, Mr. Lopez. That is my point. It's interesting that everyone who has had a number in mind has mentioned the number 8. Where did they get that number? Do you recall the conversation that we had in the parking lot with the member of OCCORD and he said to me that the only way that the undocumented person is going to have a voice in our government, in our electoral process, is through 8 districts. Commissioner Ma'ae said that Commissioner Lopez was a witness to that. Now, is that something that she is supposed to calmly and agree that they should have 8 districts so that some of my family members who are here who are undocumented, which we are working on that legally and getting them legalized, but am I supposed to sit here and put their voice before the rest of the city who is here, registered to vote. Everyone deserves a voice, absolutely. Believe me, my background is one that my parents were immigrants, they came over here the hard way as they say. She has family members who are here unfortunately not documented. They're not proud of that. She is proud of them for coming for a better life, and a better way. That is the reason the majority of immigrants come to this country. As a young lady said earlier, there are other ways to go about this. It is not to come in and change the charter of our city for their voice. We all are entitled to that voice. It's not just the select few. Commissioner Lopez so that you feel that everyone that came, do you feel that most are undocumented. Commissioner Ma'ae said no absolutely not. Commissioner Lopez said then said that we heard one of the public speakers saying earlier that taxation without representation is not fair. Everyone is paying taxes. Everyone is working. He doesn't want to question people's document status and say they don't deserve to be represented because they are undocumented. Commissioner Ma'ae said you're right. They do deserve to be represented. Commissioner Lopez said everyone represents representation. He is going from public comments and experts in the field. Anaheim is a big city and the 5 city council size was instituted in the 1857 and it's so long overdue. Commissioner Real being that we cannot reach an agreement or a consensus. The reason why I am here and why I believe everyone is here is to make a recommendation to the city council. We don't have to give them any numbers. We can tell them it is the public's opinion that the council size ought to be increased based on how we determine the districting issue. Mr. Lynn said that Commissioner Real's comment was a valid one and if you like something you here let me know. What we are trying to do is get to a recommendation that you can forward to the mayor and council. If numbers become the problem, Commissioner Real is suggesting that you not use the numbers. Just recommend the concept of an increased number of seats. Commissioner Real said let the voters suggest the number. Page 16 of 39 Commissioner Armas said he likes what Commissioner Real is saying but what he is confused about is how you get to those numbers and it's not really our job to do that. He said it seems that we all agree that there should be an increase. There are different ideas on the number. Chair Pham had a response to Commissioner Ma'ae and then she would like to make a recommendation. Everyone is welcome. There has been a lot of outreach from the community and asking to have their voice be heard and she has not heard a lot of people, except for Ron Bengochea, that they are against districting. In past meetings 22 people have made comments in support of districting or change to districts. Six have made public comments opposed to districts. Today you know we have continued to hear 8 districts repeatedly. Are we going to just dismiss this public concern? Chair Pham doesn't think we should. We were charged to listen to the public. We were charged to listen to the experts. This is what we are hearing. They want 8 districts. Mr. Lynn corrected her by saying did you mean to say they want 8 council member seats? Chair Pham said yes, sorry, she meant to say 8 council member seats. Mr. Lynn said so how we get them we can discuss in a moment. So your statistics go more toward item 3 than item 2? However, I take that as listening to the public. Chair Pham confirmed that was correct. So, it does not look like we are reaching a consensus. She would like to recommend that we go back to what Mr. Lynn recommended in the beginning that we recommend to the city council an increase in number of seats to 6 or 8? Mr. Lynn said that there are two perfectly clear ways to go. As Commissioner Real said you can recommend an increase and perhaps ask the public what the right number might be. It could at some point be put on the ballot and they public could vote on how many representatives you have. That is one suggestion. Mr. Lynn's suggestion earlier that there should be an increase but you couldn't come to a consensus on the number so that the two numbers that were discussed most were 6 council members plus a mayor or 8 council members plus a mayor. That may suggest to them what they put out to the public for a choice to vote upon. Commissioner Armas said that seemed fair. Commissioner Day said that if she may appeal to her fellow commissioners, if we go large, we can't go backwards. We can always grow. If we were seven member council it could grow bigger, but once you have gone big you can't go backwards. Mr. Lynn said so it seems it would be prudent to consider incremental growth to limit the recommendation to 6. Commissioner Day said yes. If she is not mistaken when we took the first vote we had 5 for 6 members, 4 for 8 and one abstention. Wouldn't that be a majority? Mr. Lynn said yes it would be at that time but we hadn't had the discussion. He said that he is all about hearts and minds changing. Page 17 of 39 Chair Pham said she didn't hear anyone changing. Mr. Lynn continued when you hear something new sometimes that allows for change. So the question is has the discussion you have had with one another changed anyone's opinion. Is it fair to recommend that. Commissioner Edinger said she thinks it's fair to say that we recommend that you increase the size and state that so many members voted for 6 and so many voted for 8. Chair Pham asked if we could have a motion. Commissioner Edinger made the motion to state that there was a recommendation to increase the size of the council and those 5 members voted for 6 council members plus a mayor and 4 members voted for 8 council members plus a mayor and there was 1 abstention. Vice Chair Dalati seconded. Commissioner Lopez asked if this was a compromise. Many said yes. Commissioner Olesen said he doesn't think it's a compromise. They agree the numbers of council seats should increase but the numbers that were talked about were either 6 or 8 plus the mayor. The council certain isn't beholden to go with those but that is what our recommendation would be. Mr. Lynn said he would like to be clear that the recommendation needs to be reflective of the discussion. The discussion was between 6 and 8 but I did not hear another number. He did not hear another number come up. Commissioner Olesen said that's where just making the recommendation that it should lust be increased, he is not sure that that is much of a recommendation or a help. He thinks being specific parameters will be a better recommendation. Mr. Lynn said I think Commissioner Edinger's recommendation reflects that. Vice Chair Dalati said he would like to clarify something. We did here from many who recommended 8 or 7. It's important to have an odd number. Chair Pham said 8 plus the mayor. Vice Chair Dalati said Commissioner Edinger's motion solved that and would work. Chair Pham said let's put this motion to a vote for the citizens of Anaheim like Commissioner Real has requested. Mr. Lynn restated that what Chair Pham asked is a change in the motion. Chair Pham said yes. Commissioner Edinger made the motion to state that there was a recommendation to increase the size of the council and those 5 members voted for 6 council members plus a mayor and 4 members voted for 8 council members plus a mayor and there was 1 abstention with the final number to be taken to the public for vote. Page 18 of 39 Commissioner Day suggested that language is really not necessary because we are a charter city any change to council would have to go to the public for a vote. It is not necessary to add that language. Commissioner Edinger made the motion to state that there was a recommendation to increase the size of the council and those 5 members voted for 6 council members plus a mayor ( Olesen, Edinger, Armas, Day, Ma'ae) and 4 members voted for 8 council members plus a mayor (Dalati, Pham, Diaz, Larsen) and there was 1 abstention (Real). Commissioner Edinger said that her motion stood as originally stated. Commissioner Real seconded. Vice Chair Dalati said he already seconded. Ayes — 10 ( Armas, Dalati, Day, Edinger, Larsen, Lopez, Ma'ae, Olesen, Pham, Real) Noes — 0 The motion passed. Mr. Lynn confirmed the numbers as they stood above. He said you are now through with a third of the evening. He said now we will move on to discussing how the Mayor is elected.. b. How Mayor is to be elected Commissioner Real said that it was important that the mayor not run for another office while serving. There was discussion of possible options of how the mayor will be elected including at -large voting by the people or rotating with the other council selecting the mayor. Mr. Lynn asked if that was prohibited. Mr. Tyson, Deputy City Attorney, said he cannot definitively say that it's prohibited in the State of California. What he has sees it that a public official may have to resign their office before they can run for another office. Mr. Tyson said he believes that the law frowns upon that type of law unless they have been elected to the second office, then they cannot hold two offices at once. Mr. Lynn cautioned the committee against making any recommendation that was specific to any individual, in that you don't know who is going to occupy the seats and who they are in the future. I suggest very strongly that you try not to box people in too badly. Let people stand up for whatever it is that they do and be accountable that they do and be accountable to people for whatever they do and they have to be accountable to the laws, whatever the laws are. Commissioner Edinger said she would recommend the mayor be elected by the public since they are ultimately accountable to the public. She would like a mayor who is accountable to the individual and not to the other council members. Mr. Lynn said. At -large and by the entire community. Commissioner Edinger said yes. Others agreed. Page 19 of 39 Commissioner Armas expressed that he had a problem with them electing their own mayor. Chair Pham also said especially with a city our size, because we are so large, we need one mayor who represents all. Commissioner Olesen asked if he was the only one who remembered when Anaheim elected their mayor on a rotating basis and shared the history and some of the inherent problems with a mayor selected by other council members. Commissioner Olesen discussed Anaheim history, asking other members if any of them remember when Anaheim did have a rotating mayor. He indicated it was extremely inefficient. It was suggested by Commissioner Olesen that a rotating system would be moving backwards and could result in a biased council. From his understanding, the thought it that the Mayor has one vote, same as other council members. Mr. Lynn asked if anyone would like to take an opportunity to defend the concept of a mayor elected by their council members on a rotating basis. Commissioner Real responded. Yes. He is a representative of the city. He hears that there are many people saying that they do not have representation. That mitigates that question but the city mayor is serving the people not of the city. He is a representative of the city like a king or a queen, socially. Mr. Lynn said as a part of your city charter you have a weak mayor system, and I don't mean that pejoratively. That is the form of government you have: a council- manager form of government which basically means that the mayor basically presides at council meetings and has other ceremonial functions that he may perform as mayor, but he has no more power than that by and large. Mr. Garcia, do you want to address that. Deputy City Manager Garcia said you are correct. It does provide him a few other special powers but he essentially with the mayor -city manager system, it does provide him with a few other specific duties but that is correct. Commissioner Lopez supports that the mayor be elected at large by the public and maybe with regard to the charter, we suggest he has more power in order to address those concerns. From his fellow committee members if they increase the size of the council if the council fights over resources, it might be good if the mayor can balance or counter balance those resources and reasonable requests. .Motion: Vice Chair Dalati motioned that mayor be elected at large. Commissioner Edinger seconded the motion. Ayes — 10 ( Armas, Dalati, Day, Edinger, Larsen, Lopez, Ma'ae, Olesen, Pham, Real) The motion passed. Mr. Lynn stated that they are now two- thirds of the way done. At the heart of this entire process that the current form of election needs to be reviewed. He stated that he didn't say changed, he said reviewed. The mayor and council have charged this group with reviewing the current process. Your charge is to determine whether or not it should be changed and if so what manner. The first question is, and you've Page 20 of 39 already made a recommendation for some change with regard to increasing the size of the council, your recommendation is actually 6 and 8 for the council and a mayor elected at large. It does not say how those are to be elected. Here are the choices that have come out of your record. c. Electoral process There was discussion on the options: • At large(? or 9 seats) • By district, single member (5,7,8,9) • Hybrid from district, elected at large • Cumulative • Ranked choice voting Mr. Lynn asked if there are any of the choices that they would like to eliminate. Chair Pham recommended that they eliminate cumulative and ranked choice. The committee decided to eliminate cumulative and ranked choice. Chair Pham motioned to eliminate cumulative and ranked choice voting options. Vice Chair Dalati seconded the motion. Ayes — 10 ( Armas, Dalati, Day, Edinger, Larsen, Lopez, Ma'ae, Olesen, Pham, Real) Noes — 0 The motion passed. There was discussion on how the possible options, such as hybrid voting. Commissioner Armas suggested he liked hybrid if 4 candidates were elected by district and 4 were elected at large. That would be a total of 8 candidates and they could only canvas their own area. This would address some of the concerns we heard regarding cost, limiting people to their area, yet providing overall representation so that citizens are allowed more opportunity for representation. He believes that the cost would be limited. This would allow the city to have direct representation but still be united. Commissioner Real agreed. Mr. Lynn said we have two people who agree with this. Commissioner Lopez said he wanted to go by districts. Chair Pham said she would like to see a move to districts, as well. Commissioner Lopez said that if we go with electing the mayor at large, it made sense to elect council by district. He understood with hybrids that some might be elected at large and he wants to give every single neighborhood the opportunity to elect the candidate of their choice and feel represented. Vice Chair Dalati said the thing he does not like about at large and he has run for office before, is that running at large is it's really very expensive, $150,000- 300,000. Commissioner Larsen said that just a point of clarification, with this last election two candidates spent over a million dollars and that was not out of their own pockets. Commissioner Day said as a reminder with what they saw in San Jose model, their district 8 spent a million dollars in the last election. So special interests can still get involved in district elected cities. Ms. Day began to speak and Mr. Lynn interrupted. Page 21 of 39 Mr. Lynn interrupted to remind Member Day when you make a declarative statement like that without a fact to back it up, you could have 15 council members and depending on how they ran, who ran, how they were financed, who turned out and what the election turnout was, you could have 15 people not of color. What you are trying to do here is take what you have heard from people in the community who have said they need representation, now how best to get that to them? Commissioner Day remarked that her comments were based on the last election. Mr. Lynn said but we can't do that. He said that earlier you made a statement in Anaheim's last election that had there been two more, you named who it would have been. We can't do that. That's not at all true because if 4 seats had been up, more people may have run. You don't know who would have run last time. Commissioner Day said she was again basing it on the last election. Commissioner Ma'ae said that in the last election, for example the two who came in third and fourth would have gained a seat based on the candidates who were running. Mr. Lynn commented on the argument indicating you can't put the two together and make a conclusion. Commissioner Day said then let me restate this, if the council was to grow to 7 or 9 council members, something that is true that each Anaheim resident would have 7 to 9 people accountable to them whereas if we are district, they would only have one person accountable to them. That is true. Mr. Lynn said that is absolutely true. Chair Pham would like to make a comment about Commissioner Day's comment about diversity. Ms. Pham said we keep coming back to needing racial representation on the city council and she thinks that is really incorrect. Ms. Pham said she thinks that the public wants a representative from their neighborhood. Chair Pham doesn't think that they necessarily want a Latino on the city council, they want someone who represents them_ from their neighborhood. Vice Chair Dalati asked to speak in response to Commissioner Day and Commissioner Edinger. This word special interest keeps coming up and I think we can agree special interests are always going to be here. Mr.Dalati thinks the reason that we are all here is the interest of the people and while special interest are not going away who want this or that. He doesn't think we should care about it. Commissioner Ma'ae said she wished that they could have elections where we could not have to worry about special interest groups but our meetings have been a prime example of groups organizing and of getting together and putting a group of statistics together and scripted material for individuals to speak to at the podium. To address your comment about the public comments, yes they have been and she wished that more people would have come to these meetings and spoken during public comment and stood at that podium to make their voice heard instead of speaking just directly to me because I am trying to express their interests and be representative of the city as a whole. It doesn't help me if people don't come to the podium. Ms. Ma'ae said she is one person and she does not have an organization behind her to gather behind her to speak to the individuals on the point she wished to emphasize. Page 22 of 39 Vice Char Dalati said he totally agreed and maybe this is just the style of the special interest groups that you are talking about. Other interest groups make phone calls behind the scene and they influence a lot of people. Let's really think about the people of Anaheim. Commissioner Ma'ae said it does work both ways. Commissioner Larsen said Vice Chair Dalati with all due respect to you and you are very highly regarded, there are special interest people on this committee. They do know who they are and Mr. Larsen said he knows who some of them are but let's not forget why we are here. This wasn't because the city council got together and said we should do something for the betterment of Anaheim. We are here because Los Amigos partnered with the ACLU and to sue the City of Anaheim on behalf of the majority of the people Anaheim. That is why they are here. What is going to happen which I have tried to point out is that a lot of money has been spent yet nothing has been done. He tried to point out tonight that the Anaheim Union High School District is facing the same challenge with districting. Why? Because they have the same pressures on them. Here's what is going to happen in Mr. Larsen's opinion: The judge has already said he's postponed any decisions until July additional time until this committee concludes their work and determine what the city council would like to do. If the city council does not go with districts, the lawsuit will continue on. If the judge decides we will lose the lawsuit. Every expert who has come in has said the precedent is there and we're going to lose the lawsuit. Let's get real; let's get practical and leave our emotions aside. The City of Anaheim will spend an unknown amount of money to fight a losing battle of a lawsuit and then we will lose the right to districting to the courts. The courts will take over that responsibility. They will assign the people who will do the districting and the city of Anaheim will be left out. Special interests, you bet. That is why we are sitting here. By the way the number of people on the city council and the way in which they are elected don't guarantee anything or the quality of the person. That's the right of the people to elect any lousy politician they may choose. Mr. Lynn said that whether they are elected at large or by districts doesn't guarantee it either. Commissioner Larsen said to Commissioner Olesen that regrettably he is old enough to remember the old method of the council directly electing their mayor in the 1970's and the intent of going to a direct election of mayor was anticipating that at some point the mayor of Anaheim would be a full time job, which it basically is now and the city council are. Commissioner Olesen said that's always been a part of the discussion that the entire city council should be a full time job not a part time job as it is now. Chair Pham wanted to comment on the lawsuit. Ms. Pham stated that the ACLU was probably going to win the lawsuit and she asked if the committee wanted to make the decision for the city of Anaheim to move to districting or do we want the courts to decide. That's something she'd like to remind the fellow commissioners. Commissioner Larsen and Commissioner Ma'ae said yes, we want to decide. Commissioner Real said the districting is not going to be an easy task. Mr. Real said that if we select an equal number of representatives /candidates or residents to be covered by a council member, that means that he may not necessarily have a candidate of their choice being elected. If the public wants to see a Hispanic being elected and the district goes beyond the Hispanic neighborhoods, that doesn't necessarily ensure that the public will be able to select the candidate of their choosing. Page 23 of 39 Mr. Lynn indicated that candidate of choice is a function of people in an area or a district. Voting for a candidate and having that vote count meaning it produced an elected official versus having someone like you are different. There is no guarantee on anything. What you are trying to do is give the issue the best chance of success based on everything you have heard and everything you know. Mr. Lynn said he would like to go back to Commissioner Armas' suggestion and move through these. Please correct me if I mis- state this. Commissioner Armas suggested that you go with a hybrid with 4 of the 8 selected city wide plus the mayor, and then four from specific districts. Commissioner Ma'ae asked if you meant 4 of the 8 or 3 of the 6. Mr. Lynn said it could be either /or 4 of the 8 or 3 of the 6 because you have not made a firm recommendation on the number. Commissioner Armas said it would be easier to make it simple with 8 because you could stipulate that you must live in that area. If you look at LA County they don't even live in the area. We have had the same problem in Anaheim where they were actually renting a house within one block of the city, basically the carpet bagger syndrome that a lot of young people don't know what that means. It is rampant. If we went with a hybrid type of system we could ensure some type of 2 -3 year residency inside that district, hold them a little more accountable because we really can't trust anything a politician says. Mr. Lynn said he is not going to comment on that but take the suggestion, that whichever number of seats the council may have that half of them be city wide (at- large) and half of them be elected by district and then the mayor elected at large. Mr. Lynn asked if that suggestion has traction. Commissioner Lopez said no. Commissioner Real agreed with the suggestion. Commissioner Pham asked if they should go one by one. Commissioner Real said he agreed with that because if the city is just divided by numbers of population, it's a losing proposition but this way guarantees that each area would be represented by somebody. Mr. Lynn said either 4 people or 6 depending upon the size of council. Mr. Lynn noted that Commissioner Larsen was speaking against that. Commissioner Larsen said absolutely against it because there are a couple city council people who couldn't find West Anaheim. Commissioner Armas said they're not here Mr Larsen; we're not supposed to do that. Mr. Lynn thanked Mr. Armas as it saved him from not doing it. Mr. Lynn said is there anyone else who would like to jump on to those suggestions. Commissioner Armas had one last comment and what he said is really turning him off from districting is that you have heard all the talk about Anaheim Hills vs. the flatlands and the other areas. To him, there is already a division that is pretty resentful with a lot of residents and Member Day came up with a statistic last meeting that Anaheim Hills actually had a slower response time than the west. There are a couple of other things that they are probably not aware of. There are a couple other things with the fact that Anaheim Hills is newer. They are now mandating more parks and open spaces. That was privy to the Page 24 of 39 older Anaheim. You can't compare them. You can drive up there and see more green areas but that's how they are being developed in the newer areas. They have to its law. The district part is dividing our city again with resentment. If you are one block out of that district you're out of luck because if you have a situation over there that is a hazard or blighted, you're just going to have to look at. If you can't get someone from that part of the city to look at it you're out of luck. He said he thinks that we really need to be able to hold our politicians accountable. Mr. Lynn said if I understand you correctly you are offering a compromise between half elected at large and half districts with the mayor elected at large. Commissioner Armas said yes. Commissioner Armas was under the impression regarding what Mr. Larsen said that the lawsuit did not dictate districts or our voting. In fact, we don't even know if we have broken any laws although they have cited a lot of case references. Mr. Armas said it is his impression that the committee is here to look at different alternatives with voting and not to mandate it because anybody can sue anybody. Mr. Lynn said I want to talk about the lawsuit for a moment. I'd like to ask which of you is the judge that is hearing the lawsuit. Someone said none. Mr. Lynn said that is correct. The point of that is, that person will determine if there is merit and if so, what that merit is. My point is that you are not hearing that case tonight. That is not your job. Your job is to provide the mayor and council with the benefit of your wisdom from everything you know. Commissioner Dalati, go ahead. Vice Chair Dalati said again we're forgetting we are only making a recommendation and that the people who sit behind us here (the city council) are going to make the final recommendation in the end. He would like to ask Mr. Tyson if the lawsuit is asking for districting or are they just exploring methods. Mr. Tyson replied, I think you are asking what remedy is the lawsuit asking for. Is it asking for districts or just change in general. Vice Chair Dalati said that is right. Mr. Tyson said he doesn't have the pleading memorized but his understanding was the remedy recommended in the suit was districts.. As we heard from some of political science experts, it's not the only remedy that might be heard by the judge under hearing a case. Vice Chair Dalati asked again so the lawsuit is about districting. Mr. Tyson said that the lawsuit is seeking a remedy for the alleged violation of the California Voting Rights Act. He believes that it proposes as most lawsuits do, that if you were suing for a slip and fall, it would propose that you get some money damages and perhaps some other things. He believes the remedy that the lawsuit proposes is districts but that is not to say that is the only kind of remedy that a judge could order if there were a violation. Page 25 of 39 Vice Chair Dalati said he believes they should eliminate the hybrid method and consider districting or not. That is his opinion. Mr. Lynn said he only had two people supporting hybrids, the maker and one other. Commissioner Lopez asked to address Commissioner Armas idea with hybrid regarding someone renting a house. That is particularly the problem and the risk we run with a hybrid system coming from an area just renting a house and knowing that he doesn't get to be elected by the people in that district yet people from other areas electing him. So is he truly going to be representing the interest of those people in that community or someone else's interest? That is his issue with the hybrid. That is why Mr. Lopez believes that we should make the move to districts. You must live in your district and that way you would be accountable only to those people in your district. Commissioner Larsen said that hybrid could support special interests and in this city there is one special interest. Mr. Lynn said there are two forms of hybrid, Commissioner Armas is suggesting one. In the other each member of a district runs in a primary, and is nominated but is elected citywide. That is a different type of hybrid. There are other cities that use that. The way the argument goes and it's not Mr. Lynn's position but the argument goes: the benefit of that type of hybrid is that even though districts are represented, everyone gets to vote in the final analysis for all members of the council. That is a different type of hybrid. I would like to have you consider them both to see if there is traction before we cut to the chase and consider just at -large or district elections. Commissioner Edinger wanted to expand upon what Commissioner Armas had said and why she is not in favor of districts. Anaheim is already divided between who lives in Anaheim Hills and who doesn't. Ms. Edinger said she does not live in Anaheim Hills, and she understands what a lot of people are saying about feeling not represented. She thinks having districts is only going to divide us even more. Keith could live in my neighborhood; she could want one thing and Keith could want another. You can't assume just because the person we elected is from our neighborhood, is going to represent every single member in that district. We talk about special interests, does Disneyland get its own member? Does it get its own district? Do the people who live right near Disneyland, are they going to get any representation when they are in the same district as the special interest? She sees the problem and shares some of the concerns that are being brought up. Ms. Edinger said she believes it is putting a band -aid on a gaping wound, in her opinion. Commissioner Armas said with some of the reading he's done that districts started on the East Coast but they were basically phased out because of their corruption. It wasn't his thinking. It may not be perfect; but that is what we are here to discuss. We are trying to get to discussing something that basically failed as it began. We're trying to make a recommendation and just ensure we're not going backwards again. Mr. Lynn said he still only has two people supporting hybrid. Commissioner Olesen said he is for eliminating hybrid. Commissioner Day said that her heart is for at- large, but she is considering what Commissioner Armas and Commissioner Real are discussing the at -large district model which is being used in Santa Ana right now. She supposes that in an effort to show to good faith, she thinks it is something reasonable to Page 26 of 39 consider. What she is trying to say is that for core principle reasons, she believes in the at -large system. The lawsuit was brought up. Something that she finds confusing is that the lawsuit doesn't talk about geography. It's very specific language that is race based. The goal post is constantly changing with that. Ms. Day said that we have people here on the dais who are saying it's regarding area representation; that is not the language at all that is specified in the ACLU lawsuit. It's actually very ugly language that is all about skin color and it's very disturbing. She loves what she heard from Dr. Patricia who spoke about Dr. Martin Luther King. We have had that other gentleman who spoke about what matter is what is on the inside. Commissioner Day said she believe that it's what is on the inside that matters. That is who she is. Ms. Day believes that districts are the opposite of that. She believes it's a model of reverse racism to be truthful with you based on the language that is dictated in the lawsuit. She is very opposed to single member district elections. Vice Chair Dalati asked Mr. Tyson if it's based on representation or is it based on race. Ms. Day said its race; its 100% based on race. Mr. Tyson replied if you are asking about the lawsuit. Under the California Voting Rights Act, it is based on ethnicity; it is not based on geographic issues. Chair Pham said she would like to make a comment to Commissioners Armas and Edinger again a quote from Dr. Sarah Hill, she said that corruption is not a districts vs. at -large issue. It is an issue inherent in politics. The factors causing corruption that led to the adoption of at -large districts in the 1930's no longer exists today. She also said that she thinks that districting adds cohesion to the city if everyone feels like they have a voice and are part of the process instead of some folks feeling as if they are left out. Representation from neighborhoods can help make sure that resources are divided in a way that is both equitable and well thought -out. Commissioner Armas said that they based that on Republican and Democrat parties. Chair Pham said based what on. Commissioner Armas said the districting and the corruption was based on the party affiliation. While she said that doesn't happen anymore, we do have special interests. Chair Pham made a rebuttal. Vice Chair Dalati said can we vote to take hybrid off? Mr. Lynn said he felt there were still three people that he knows that were in favor of hybrid that Commissioner Armas recommended. Commissioner Day clarified with the three people being Commissioner Real, Commissioner Armas and myself? To show good faith in an effort to come up with a solution, she believes that she feels that would be a better solution than districting. Mr. Lynn said to Ms. Day that he understood that you are coming to it reluctantly because you do feel strongly that your point of view going in was in support of at- large. Ms. Day you are willing to support this in the interest of compromise. Mr. Lynn said he would like to see if anyone else is in agreement. Page 27 of 39 Commissioner Armas wanted to interject again. Mr. Lynn said he believes that Mr. Armas has already said everything. The reason he said it is just a recommendation and we could refine it so we are not locked in to just one system. We would have a lot of longitude here whereas the districts just lock us in to one way. Commissioner Ma'ae said she would be open to hybrid because she feels single member districts are not productive and hybrid would allow everyone to have a voice. It makes it so that only people in that district have a voice. Mr. Lynn said that was four. Commissioner Edinger asked if Commissioner Armas' suggestion was in agreement with Commissioner Day that her recommendation would be to continue with at large but with a recommendation to consider hybrid as an option. Commissioner Day said she liked how Commissioner Edinger phrased it better. Mr. Lynn said that is different from what was said by Commissioner Armas. Commissioner Edinger asked Commissioner Day if she would prefer the at large with hybrid as an alternate. Commissioner Armas said that the hybrid system would satisfy a lot of the things that we need to look at but it would also give us the opportunity to expand upon it. Commissioner Edinger said that is different than what Sandy and I would recommend. Commissioner Armas said if we go to at- large; you're locked in to that. If you go to districts; we're locked in to that. Hybrid is the only one that he feels gives you some latitude and would allow you some ability to adjust it. Mr. Lynn said make no mistake the hybrid system has a district function built in to it. Commissioner Armas said he understood that. It's just that there is a division of function within the hybrid option. Commissioner Ma'ae said that within the hybrid option, you have some districts but you have an at large voting. Mr. Lynn said no that was not the case with Commissioner Armas' suggestion. Half would be from at- large and half would be from districts with the mayor being elected at large. Chair Pham said that if Commissioner Ma'ae is suggesting the other hybrid model. She would consider supporting the other district model of nominating the candidates by district and electing them at- large, citywide. Page 28 of 39 Chair Pham said yes, that is correct. Commissioner Larsen asked Commissioner Armas a question. Mr. Lynn asked if Commissioner Ma'ae was changing. Commissioner Armas said he actually liked the idea better of the candidates being nominated out of districts and being elected at- large. Mr. Lynn said he would get to Mr. Larsen. Mr. Lynn said he was hearing a shift here and he wanted to be sure he understood clearly. So, now we are talking about having all candidates nominated from districts in a primary and being elected at large with the exception of the mayor who would also be elected at large both in primary and in general. Commissioner Armas has now clarified that he is now supporting the second hybrid model, nomination by district and general election at large. Commissioner Armas said that is correct and the candidates would still need to reside in the districts. Commissioner Larsen asked for clarification. Say we have 6 districts; every district would nominate someone. Commissioner Armas said that they would nominate someone from there district; there could be four or five. Commissioner Larsen said then someone from that district may not be elected. Mr. Lynn said let me explain. If this explanation of hybrid is the one you want to go with, let me explain what would happen. Districts would be drawn. Within that district people would run for office. The top two for that seat would go forward from a primary election and then would be voted on citywide. The winner of that city wide vote would hold that district seat. Commissioner Larsen said so what we are saying then is that, he lives in Anaheim Hills, but I am going to influence who is elected in the West Anaheim district. Mr. Lynn said that is correct. He said he would like to point out that in that hybrid, and this is something that happens all the time, that if two candidates go forward as top two; there may be a huge disparity between the top two, the top and the second. Often times the result of the citywide election does not produce the candidate of choice for that district by a majority vote. Commissioner Larsen said so each of those candidates from West Anaheim would still have to campaign city wide and they would still have to generate the money to do that and neither one may win. No, Mr. Lynn said someone from each district will win. One of them will win. If you look at the entire canvas of the final vote; it is possible that the winner of a district may be determined in another district vote. Chair Pham so this is like the Santa Ana model. Commissioner Larsen said so just for kicks, the people in Anaheim Hills could all get together and elect the lesser of the candidates in West Anaheim. So what are we accomplishing? Page 29 of 39 Commissioner Day said the West could do that for the East as well. Commissioner Larsen stated we're creating a bigger problem. Mr. Larsen said we've already created this problem in California. Are you aware of how we elect people in primaries in California Commissioner Larsen explained the top two vote getters run off for that office. It's no longer by parties any more. The top two vote getters will run off for that office. So if the top two vote getters for governor happen to be Democrats; you have two Democrats running for the office of governor. You do not have an alternative party. That would be what we're doing here. Vice Chair Dalati said that he kind of like the concept. Running at large will always put you at the mercy of special interest. Commissioner ©lesen said, Commissioner Dalati, running for office at all puts you at the will of special interests. Vice Chair Dalati said that if you run by district; it's much more reasonable and there is less impact of special interest. Mr. Lynn reiterated to the committee that he wanted everyone to understand the difference and determine if they were going to vote on it or eliminate hybrid. The committee started out favoring one type then shifted to the other type of hybrid elections. He restated the two types of hybrids: • The first hybrid option brought about by Commissioner Armas where regardless of number of seats half of the seats would be elected at large and the mayor would be elected at large; the other half of the council would be elected by districts. • The second hybrid system recommended by Commissioner Ma'ae would be where two candidates are nominated in a primary from each district and then they would be elected in a general election that was citywide. Mr. Lynn's question is do you want either one of them. Commissioner Ma'ae if we did a hybrid where it is half voted on by the district and half voted on by at- large; do you have an issue with that? Commissioner Larsen said he absolutely has an issue with that because that gives the special interests a foot -hold on who they are electing. All the special interests have to do then is elect half is to control the city council which will continue to disenfranchise some of the districts that don't have the money or the support to run for office. You know Anaheim Hills that everyone vilifies, so they can collect all the money and they can elect whomever they want, where West Anaheim, or Central Anaheim, or the Anna Street group; they don't have any money so they're not going to be able to elect anybody. Commissioner Ma'ae said but is it still the same concern that you had over an entire at large system with individual districts. Commissioner Larsen said, quite frankly, he doesn't personally have a problem with at -large the way it is now and he knows that is not the way it's going to be. So, Mr. Larsen said that he is going to be pro- active and practical to the point let's control our destiny and let's not accept the fate of a judge deciding Page 30 of 39 our destiny. That is where he's coming from. At -large he is fine with. At -large or by district; neither guarantee good representation either way. It also doesn't say that you won't have good representation.. You just have to see what we get. It all depends on what you think about what we have now versus what someone else may think. What we are going to have versus what he wants are two different things. Mr. Lynn said that is a very helpful clarification of a position. Commissioner Real said voting at large, he thinks, that the voters do not go to the polls. When they have district, and they have a personal interest in the district; they will go to the polls and vote. Mr. Lynn said is that a good thing. Commissioner Real said, yes that is a good thing. Others agreed. Commissioner Real continued that they are complaining about not being represented by the city council. Mr. Lynn said so let me ask the question again. Do either versions work for the committee. Commissioner Day said if we as a committee had a problem understanding the hybrid model and the various scenarios and here we've been studying this for as long as we have, she said she would like to remove her recommendation for hybrid. If we're confused by it; how do we expect 350,000 people to vote on it or understand it. Commissioner Olesen motioned to eliminate hybrid voting because it came about as a result of compromise. He said the ultimate result of compromise often being mediocrity; he recommended eliminating the hybrid options. Commissioner Larsen seconded. Ayes — 10 (Armas, Dalati, Day, Edinger, Larsen, Lopez, Ma'ae, Olesen, Pham, Real) Noes — 0 The motion passed. Mr. Lynn reiterated their first decision regarding council size has been recorded. He said that you can revisit it next week in the draft. It is now in the record. Now he would like to discuss the at large vs. districting. His sense is that if he gave you three more hours to discuss it you'd be at the same place as you are now. My guess is where you are is still where you are. You have heard each other talk about it enough to know each other's point of view enough to know what the arguments are. Mr. Lynn said I don't want you to consider the lawsuit in trying to determine what the outcome will be; but that is certainly a reality is as well. To reflect Larry's statement of his position earlier, his position is driven by the fact that he would rather do it now, rather than be told he must do something else.. Mr. Lynn suggested that he suggested that the committee may be at a point where you may wish to take a vote by a show of hands and then take that discussion period to fashion a recommendation that can be based on the vote. Vice Chair Dalati would like to say something. Page 31 of 39 Vice Chair Dalati directed his question to Mr. Tyson, the lawsuit has cost almost 400, 000 thus far, if we were to say the City Council is going to go to districts right now, would that drop the lawsuit? Would it be over? Mr. Tyson, if I understand your question, if you recommend districts, does that end the lawsuit? Vice Chair Dalati, said not me, but if the committee recommends districting to the City Council? Chair Pham clarified if in July the City Council recommends a move to districts, would that put an end to the lawsuit. Mr. Tyson said he can't speak for the plaintiff's attorney. He said the plaintiff s attorney would have to agree that that settles the case or they would have to dismiss the case. Mr. Tyson reiterated that he cannot speak for the plaintiff's attorneys. If council did approve the recommendation to districting, he said that he is sure that the plaintiff would like to see it approved before the voters because it would have to be approved by the voters as a charter change. There is certainly a good chance that would resolve the lawsuit by agreement. There is a chance that any change that is recommended by the council could lead to a chance that it would resolve the lawsuit. Vice Chair Dalati asked if Mr. Tyson was aware of the situation with the City of Compton. Mr. Dalati stated that Compton was forced to go to district elections. Commissioner Day said it went to the vote of the people and they voted on it. Vice Chair Dalati said they were forced by the court to go to districts. Mr. Tyson said he did see the presentation on the City of Compton. Commissioner Day said that is not accurate. Commissioner Day said it went to the vote of the people and they voted on it. There was a discussion about the fact that it hard to go to a vote with the public because Compton is a charter city. Mr. Lynn said that any charter city would have to go to the public for a vote to make a change to the charter. Vice Chair Dalati was inquiring because Compton was sued by the same group that Anaheim had been sued by. Chair Pham moved that they take a vote to see how many are in favor of at -large or districts. Mr. Lynn said how many of you are in favor of creating district elections in Anaheim. See results below. He also asked how many support at- large. See results below. d. At large vs. Districting for electoral system There was a lengthy discussion after determining the committee was split 5 and 5. Supporting maintaining at large election: • ' Commissioner Olesen • Commissioner Edinger Page 32 of 39 • Commissioner Armas • Commissioner Day • Commissioner Ma'ae Supporting districting: • Commissioner Larsen • Commissioner Lopez • Chair Pham • Vice Chair Dalati • Commissioner Real Given the split decision and further discussion, the committee determined it would be best to recommend to the City Council that the issue be placed on the ballot for the people to vote on maintaining at large elections or moving to districting. Mr. Lynn suggested there were two options as to how this could be placed on the ballot. There was discussion of placing this on the ballot either for an advisory vote or for a change to the charter which would include creation of districts and voting by district. It could be done either way. You could make a recommendation as to how they would do it, however an advisory ballot is not binding. Commissioner Edinger asked if it would be less costly to have an advisory vote or opinion poll. Mr. Lynn said that it would also be less official and have less validity to have an opinion poll rather than an election. The cost for either type of election is likely it may cost the same. Commissioner Olesen said I believe Commissioner Edinger was asking about the non binding advisory vote. Mr. Lynn said the non binding advisory vote and vote to change the charter would cost the same. Commissioner Larsen pointed out that if you are concerned about money. What is being spent on the lawsuit in court will be way more than an election, especially if it continues would certainly be more than the cost of an election to vote on the issue. Commissioner Olesen said it is money well spent. Commissioner Real made a motion to let the people vote. Commissioner Lopez seconded the motion. Vice Chair Dalati clarified that the motion- the committee was unable to make a majority recommendation, however the committee was firm in the recommendation that the mayor and city council should refer the issue to the ballot to let the citizens vote. Commissioner Larsen asked that the 5 who voted for at large, to use a little common sense and disregard what they have been asked here to do and consider supporting district voting. Commissioner Ma'ae responded that no one on council asked me to respond one way or another. Just because we are involved in different functions and different support groups, that does not mean I don't have a mind of mine own or that I don't represent people in my immediate neighborhood. Page 33 of 39 Commissioner Olesen said to Commissioner Larsen that you could be accused of the same thing. A discussion broke out. Mr. Lynn said he didn't wish to question anyone's integrity. Chair Pham said let's go back to the motion at hand. Mr. Lynn reiterated everyone here has their own opinions and they are entitled to vote them here on this panel. That's what you were asked to do. He does not believe it's valuable to impugn anybody's motives or intentions. He said I consider every one of you to have pure motives and intentions because you are here doing what you're doing and you have spent the time doing it. Vice Chair Dalati said that he believes that the money being spent on the lawsuit is money that belongs to the people of Anaheim and he believes they should have a say in whether they continue to spend it or end the lawsuit. Chair Pham said there was a motion on the floor and it had been seconded Commissioner Day asked for clarification on the motion. Mr. Lynn clarified the original motion- the committee was unable to make a majority recommendation on the methodology of election, however the committee was firm in the recommendation that the city council refer the issue to the ballot to let the citizens vote on which methodology they prefer, at large or districts. Commissioner Day said so the people will vote on at -large or districts and the majority wins. Ms. Day said she was agreeable to that. Commissioner Larsen asked do we want to recommend a special election or the very next general election. Some said right away. Some said general election. There was discussion. Commissioner Ma'ae said let it be put to the vote of the people. Mr. Lynn said you may impact the timing. Commissioner Edinger asked if the recommendation will show that we were split evenly? Mr. Lynn said yes. What Mr. Lynn said is I'm trying to get what you do agree on so there is some semblance of this work, all of your time, and the many months you have spent goes to the mayor and council with more than a 5 -4 or 6 -4 vote at the end. This is going to come back to you in a 3 -4 page document that has your recommendations in it. It will be your report to mayor and council. Mr. Lynn wants it to firmly reflect what you think and feel so that when that vote happens on May 9` it's not 5 -5. He's love that it be 10 -0. Whatever we get to, I would like for you to have a much more affirmative recommendation on the full report which will retain each of these recommendations. That's why it's important for you to think about and vote on. You have a motion on the floor. Commissioner Armas said what's the motion. The motion was made by Real to take a vote. Commissioner Real made the original motion, Commissioner Lopez seconded the motion. Ayes — 10 ( Armas, Dalati, Day, Edinger, Larsen, Lopez, Ma'ae, Olesen, Pham, Real) Noes — 0 The motion passed. Page 34 of 39 Commissioner Lopez asked to make a recommendation that all the public comments, all the records of expert's comments, and all the discussion the committee had be included in the final report. Mr. Lynn said he thinks they will be referenced and the record is public. The record is there. Mr. Lynn is there any other business that you would like me to be involved in next time. Commissioner Day would it be possible for us to get summaries of everything from this meeting tonight and the last meeting before the next meeting so that we could study that. Mr. Lynn said yes. You are going to have that the Monday before the next Thursday meeting. Commissioner Day clarified that it would be comprehensive of all the five issues? Mr. Lynn said yes, it will be all outlined for you in report form. What I really need you to do is to take a few minutes before the meeting to run through it and to make sure it fairly reflects what you did. If it needs changes, that is the meeting where we will make the changes to make sure that at the end of the meeting if you're voting on the report, you're not voting for any specific recommendation but you're voting that the report fairly reflects your work as a committee. Commissioner Day asked if it would your preference if items from the last meeting wait to be discussed until the next meeting. Mr. Lynn asked do you have something you want to talk about now because you haven't seen it in form. He would like for you to see it in form before we discuss not just what may be wrong but how to change it. Chair Pham said that is what our next meeting is for. Commissioner Day said okay, thank you. Commissioner Lopez asked so you're saying that we're not only reviewing the report to make changes but we're also reviewing what's been decided. Mr. Lynn said Commissioner Lopez we're not going to rework the recommendations. What you are going to do is review the report and if it fairly represents what you did in these two meetings. For example, if on the issue of the size of the council, if I neglected to indicate that this was 5 -4 -1, then you would add it. That doesn't bring the issue up again. It clarifies what needs to go in the report so you're all in agreement that that's what happened. Commissioner Day said so it's only a confirmation of what occurred, so she would like to address some items. Mr. Lynn said no, it's not just a confirmation of what occurred. It is for you to decide whether or not the report as written fairly reflects what you did. Commissioner Day said so we could amend it at that point. Page 35 of 39 Mr. Lynn said yes you could amend it, absolutely. And you can amend it specifically by adding words. Come with those comments ready if you need to put an amendment forward and those will be voted on. This was not easy and I know that but I wanted to say you are very close to the finish line. I thank you for that. I want to say two things first. I again, want to applaud the time and energy that each of you has put into this assignment.. Facilitation is sometimes not an easy job and sometimes it gets intense. If I offended anyone here, I sincerely apologize. Commissioner Real said he wished we started with the last point. It would have taken less time. Chair Pham said she disagreed. She still believes it would have taken just as much time. Mr. Lynn said you may be right. You are now very close to the end of the process. I think you have done good work. I think it is clear what you are saying to the mayor and council even when you don't make an affirmative recommendation, you are being clear about a path. I thank you for the opportunity to help you do this work. I think it's very important for the city and I applaud you for doing it. Chair Pham thanked the facilitator. Chair Pham would like to move on to closing comments from her fellow commissioners. 7. Committee Communications. Action: Closing comments. Commissioner Larsen thanked staff and the audience for their tenacity. Commissioner Lopez said it's been a long six months since the first meeting on October 18, six months from today and he would like to thank all the residents that came out and gave input and the committee listened. He hopes that the result with be the best for Anaheim. Commissioner Real would like to share something that was said to him. I want to respect the right your right to say what you want to say but I don't have to agree with it. He wanted to thank the audience primarily, the staff and technicians. Every member of the committee here has done a very good job. Thank you. Commissioner Ma'ae would like to say that she's aware some of the comments she has made may not be the popular thing to say. To have people personally attack you as you're personally representing an organization. Eric Altman speaks very freely his mind and his opinion. Even though he is not an Anaheim resident, he's here. He's involved and he speaks his opinion. We should all be entitled to do that. She would hope that everyone here is talking from their heart and their own personal experiences. She is representing her neighborhood. She and her husband have dealt with challenges in their neighborhood for over 10 years or more. They have opened their home to their neighbors and they have had to combat gun violence, gangs, prostitution, and even some other issues that aren't as major. They did it at the risk of their own safety and safety of family. When you have issues such as gangs in your neighborhood, she understands how it is frightening and intimidating. The residents in these neighborhoods are fearful to address those concerns. Unfortunately that is something that not any one of us here can help to end it. There are still gangs in her neighborhood. The beauty of it is that the people are more empowered now with the help of city staff and the help of the police Page 36 of 39 department and no longer live with everyday fear. They have gotten a handle on it and minimize the problem. When she spoke to the issue of people who are undocumented, she does have family members who are dealing with that. She hopes that with immigration reform that it will improve and she wishes to do more to help. She hears concerns of their family, neighbors, 300 family members who represent every race and ethnicity, and are from more than 20 countries in our own family. That is what she finds is the beauty of Southern California is the exposure to multiple cultures and her children are exposed to so many cultures. It helps to broaden your mind and broaden your thought processes that we can embrace our differences. Embracing the differences is really what community involvement is all about; trying to understand one another, in addition to other support within the city. She wants to help; she was raised to be compassionate. She can't tell you how many people came through her parent's home and how many people have come through her home to get on their feet, to acclimate. She takes a lot of pride in that. She just wanted to be clarified that the reason she is here is for the people not for special interests. Vice Chair Dalati extended his thanks to facilitator, Steven Lynn. He applauded him. Thanks to Vivian for the great job. She has us all under control. Mr. Dalati said that he came from a background of living in a corrupt system where really you cannot even speak your mind. When he came here, God Bless America, he was blessed by God and was able to accomplish a lot in with his business. He wanted to run for office and serve; he was really excited about it. As he walked the streets of Anaheim knocking on door, he has seen neighborhoods that remind him of where he came from with potholes and neighborhoods that aren't being taken care of. When he talked to some of these people, they say the city doesn't come here. There is no representation. People say he was first important person even though he was just running for office to come here and knock on their door that was all the way in West Anaheim. Then he heard that there were other neighborhoods under siege, as they say, where people carry guns and people with drugs, where people are really afraid for their life. Then there is some aggressiveness maybe by the police department. When he spoke to the police, they said if we act aggressive people are against us. We don't know where we stand. He thinks that back where he came from its corruption; here its special interest. When you run for election you spend a lot and you have to talk to each of the special interest. Sometimes they bless you and sometimes they will tell you we need you to do this or that. Whether it's called corruption here or it's called special interest. It's the same thing in his opinion. He wants everyone on the committee to know that he has no conflict with any of you and he loves everyone here. He knows he can ask any question of Commissioner Olesen about Anaheim and whatever you tell me, I know it would be very credible 100 %. We all love Anaheim; that's why they are here and have our families at home or doing a million things that we can do. So please understand that there is no conflict with you. Whatever I vote, I would listed to either side. He was approached by both special interests. To him, if he voted for districting, he can sleep very well at night. He feels that representation from that same neighborhood would make a difference for that neighborhood. Mr. Dalati thanked the audience and staff. Commissioner Day said addressing this issue about special interest. She would like to share two stories and she hopes is will help everyone understand. The first one is a personal story to help people, to help Mr. Larsen understand who she is and why she made the decisions she did. When she was a younger girl, in her 20's she was a manager in a pharmacy. She was in charge of time cards. She had a group of employees that she supervised, all sorts of colors of people who worked at the pharmacy. There was one particular young lady who came late to work every day, from breaks, from lunch. Sandy said that she had a difficult time letting her know that she was getting Page 37 of 39 complaints from fellow employees. She felt that she wasn't good at confrontation. She finally got the courage her know she needed her to be on time from her breaks and lunch. Her response to Ms. Day was you're only saying that to me because I'm black. That was the furthest thing from Ms. Day's mind because she doesn't think that way. This was like 30 years ago. She regrets to this day that ever since she said that to me, that she never corrected her again. She continued to come to work late, come from lunch late, and come from breaks late. Ms. Day realized that she fell into a trap of treating someone differently because she was afraid of being labeled a racist which she is not. Ms. Day said she was young and now here we are 30 years later that she finds it fascinating to watch on a national level, the narrative that you see is so divisive. She grew up here in Southern California and one of the most wonderful things about growing up here is that it is a melting pot. She said she never felt different than the kids in your classroom. She was raised by her parents with the idea that whatever you want to be, you can be whether it's a doctor, a president. She believed that and she still believes that. When she looks back and thinks about that employee and think about those words she said to me. Somebody told her as a young person that she wasn't equal because she was black. She was repeating something she believed because she was told that. One of Ms. Day's biggest concerns as she sees a similar movement occurring in the Hispanic community is for our young Hispanic people to buy into that lie. It's a lie. We are equal. We all have the same opportunities. We all have the same access to our government today and in the future whatever these recommendations turn out to be. She doesn't want anybody to believe that you don't have that access because it's not true. The other thing she wanted to point out was the presidential election in 2008 it was a very exciting historical moment for our country as we saw President Barack Obama become president, the first black president. It was exciting and wonderful and not just our nation, but it was of international interest. Particularly the black community was very excited, and she understands that particularly for African American people and what they have experienced in the United States. The part that she wants to bring up and she looked at some numbers studying this. There was such a great. hope in this president from the black community because of his skin color. So right now there are 39 million African Americans in the United States, 13% of our population. However, the African Americans demographic is actually suffering more than any other demographic in the United States and it's gotten worse since Barack Obama became president. She is not trying to disrespect the president. What's she is trying to teach is that her concern that the philosophy that she has seen expressed by some speakers and even the lawsuit as what it claims that there was a sentiment that we want someone to represent them that looks like them. Those are words that she has read and she had heard in the ACLU lawsuit. The African American jobless rate is 13% considering among all Americans its 8.1%. 27% of African Americans live below the poverty line is that there was a great hope in the black community by electing a black president. I share that because I think truth is important. In the course of the meetings Ms. Day has had the privilege to meet with many community members who have spoken here. When she is finished with her obligation here, she is committed to helping these communities who need help. She doesn't do that because her skin color is the same color as theirs, or because she speaks the language that they speak. It's what was said over and over again; it's because of what was on the inside of people. So when Mr. Larsen speaks about special interests, the special interest that Ms. Day has are human beings and the City of Anaheim. Period. Thank you. Commissioner Armas said what a country. We have been meeting for 6 months. The audience has been here for 6 months. What did we come up with? Take it to the people for the vote. Isn't that what we're all about. Thank you, Steve, for getting us this far. There's respect, no animosity, and the audience's opinion. Where else can you do this? That's what we live for it's what we stand for. Page 38 of 39 It's why we're all participants in this process that we get through. He hoped it continues and everyone's opinions are out there as a lot of them were express. Whether we agreed or not, we came back to letting the people. Commissioner Edinger thanked everyone for their time and participation on the committee, city personnel, and the audience members for their time and participation today. Commissioner Olesen said that he also escaped tyrannical oppressive corrupt system. He was born in New York. We escaped before it affected my mind too horribly. Quickly, I think this ended up where a lot of people thought it would anyway, but he believes it was worth the process to get there. That's the main thing. Things were said and people we heard. One last comment: districts for election and representation are a lot like airport security. As security; it's a delusion. The quality of the person elected is what counts not where they are from, where they live or anything else. That being said, he looks forward to seeing everyone next time. Chair Pham thanked the staff again, for all their hard work, long days and late nights. Thank you Steve so very much. Ms. Pham said she thinks he had a really tough job here. Thank you for doing it for us. As a former Political Science student, it's been an amazing opportunity to be a part of this. She loves this country. It's what the democratic process is all about. We are able to say what we feel. As residents, we can agree to disagree. We have our opinions and facts to back it up. She loves this process. Unlike some other countries, they wouldn't have a voice. If they spoke out they would get shot or put in jail. It has been a long, hard, tough process over the last six months. It really tied us down to this committee. Thank you to all of the committee members for your time, the work, and research, and she looks forward to the final recommendations. 8. Adjournment The meeting was adjourned by Chair Pham at 9:55 p.m. ubmitted, Recording Page 39 of 39